Probably most fans could not give a rat's arse (or indeed a rat animagus' arse) about the location of Spinner's End, but I could, so indulge me.
First off, why is it significant, at all? Some die-hards have even insisted that this house is not Snape's and that it is a "safe house" for the Death Eaters in the same way that 12 Grimmauld Place is. Well it cannot be. Because Narcissa had no trouble finding it. There's no Fidelius charm, which I think there surely would be if this house was of any significance to the Death Eater infrastructure.
I think this is Snape's ancestral home. And no, it is not a cunningly disguised manor house or castle under some reverse glamour spell. This I suggest is the house he inherited from his parents, Tobias and Eileen. I think it is where he was brought up. And I think upstairs, Peter has use of the bedroom, where long ago, a greasy haired teenager took potshots at the flies, while practising his flair for dark spells. Snape has probably taken over the larger bedroom, which was his parents'.
The room we do see, is the room where "...a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman while a dark-haired boy cried in a corner". Add the books, and it might be the same room.
I think this house was Tobias's and is now Snape's. He keeps it because he needs somewhere to live during the summer holidays. He's not living in some grand place by virtue of his adherence (real or feigned) to Lord Voldemort, because Voldemort has not won yet. If Voldemort does win, and Snape is still demonstrating loyalty and drawing breath, he might end up with better. For the nonce, this is what he has.
He might not be sentimental about the place - and the air of neglect and quality of the furniture suggests he doesn't care about this one way or the other, but this is what he has. His money is probably spent on the things that matter to him, books.
It is also good cover. No one expects to find him in a place like this, not even Bellatrix, a close (if not liked) DE colleague. Certainly none of the fandom expected to see him in a place like this.
What sort of house is this? English readers who have seen the likes of Coronation Street will get the picture. It is probably an old two-up two-down, no garden, with a back yard, wherein is an outside privy, and coal house, or washhouse. I was brought up in such a house (there was nothing scuzzy about such in the 1950's). It is likely that these houses were built for the mill workers at the nearby mill. The other term for such housing is "back-to-back". The main door is on the street front, and opens directly to the street (there is no entrance hall). There is an alley at the back. I'm still looking for a good example photo of this sort of housing, but probably as it is generally run down, no one seems to want to post one anywhere.
The area is dominated by a now defunct mill, and it is clear from the name of the street in question, that the mill was important. This street is called "Spinner's End" and in my prosaic way, I think it is called that simply because this is the end of the mill factory where the workers who spun the cloth entered. The street has the mill at the end, and there you are.
My next musings moved onto the mill itself. It's not a windmill with the four vanes, that look so cute. Wipe that image out of your heads, if you have it. Mill, and Spinners meant textiles, so this narrowed down the location for me.
We had two big textile industries in England. The senior one was wool. England has had a major wool industry since the Middle Ages, and it has always been largely centred on Yorkshire. West Yorkshire to be exact. The younger textile industry is Cotton, centred in Lancashire. There were two major reasons for the cotton industry's location there - it's proximity to the west coast (for raw cotton came from the southern United States and shipping generally went to and from Liverpool) and the dampness of the climate. Cotton is best spun in damp air, because it tends to snap easily when overdry.
So I took out my atlases and started narrowing it down.
Then I went back to the chapter. The first geographical feature we see, is a dirty river. A fairly minor one by the look of it. So I went back to my atlases. There are hardly any of the "cotton" towns that have a river. Indeed rivers are a problem in Lancashire, hence the construction of the Manchester Ship Canal, to link Manchester to Liverpool. So I turned to Yorkshire and wool.
Paydirt.
Pre-Industrial Milling required a river to power it. Therefore many Yorkshire mills would be adjacent to a stream of some sort. Cotton was an industry that post dated the invention of machinery, and the river was less important. I therefore think Snape is a Tyke, which is a slang term for a Yorkshireman. I know at least one member of my f-list who might be pleased by this news.
So which mill town is it? Hard to say, for there are many, and I do not have a detailed map of West Yorkshire (and I doubt I'll be buying one, I'm not that obsessed. I only have any detail on larger towns, and by that reasoning, suggest Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Wakefield, Dewsbury.
I actually think JKR made up the town which contains Spinner's End, but might have based it on a number of towns.
But look at this:

"At last Narcissa hurried up a street called Spinner's End, over which the towering mill chimney seemed to hover like a giant admonitory finger. Her footsteps echoed on the cobbles as she passed boarded and broken windows..."
(HBP: Page 27, UK edition.)
And this:

Both these pictures are of the Yorkshire town of Halifax which has a strong tradition of woollen milling.
The industry is not dead, by the way. There are still carpets made in West Yorkshire. However, it's not what it once was. The tide of manufacturing receded from the northern industrial heartland, leaving in its wake terribly rundown areas, of which Spinner's End seems to be a good example. Much of this sort of housing is either demolished, or gentrified. The area Snape is living in does not seem to have benefited from any regeneration initiative. Probably he likes it that way. I suggest that the very dereliction of the area (most of the houses are boarded up and unoccupied) suits him to a T. Whatever side he is on, because he'd not want anyone to be watching his movements.
So, anyway, my suggestion is that Spinner's End is in a town in West Yorkshire, modelled on the likes of Huddersfield and Halifax.
What do you think? Shoot me down if you like, I'm not married to this idea, but it has a good beat and you can dance to it. And I'm geeky about stuff like this.
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July 21 2005, 01:15:32 UTC 6 years ago
You're geeky in the best way. I love this post, I love this idea, and I think Yorkshire!Snape makes so very much sense.
July 21 2005, 03:32:08 UTC 6 years ago
July 21 2005, 01:16:32 UTC 6 years ago
Off the point but on a similar theme, my first thought when I read the name "Tobias Snape" was of Tobias Shipton, husband of the notorious Yorkshire seer and witch, Mother Shipton. Legend has it that she was so ugly she had to bewitch her husband to marry her.
Anonymous
July 21 2005, 03:08:31 UTC 6 years ago
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July 21 2005, 01:46:05 UTC 6 years ago
I'm liking the idea of Snape as seen in this book. It's so un-Greek tragedy - previously we've had a trite old situation where the bad-looking, moody, anti-social guy will be transformed (people insist) by the power of love or friendship. It's so much more interesting to explore the truly flawed and unattractive characters for whom redemption is truly an unforseeable end.
I've not been inspired to write HP fanfiction at all, but this new Snape has plenty of mileage in my twisted little mind.
July 21 2005, 03:16:05 UTC 6 years ago
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July 21 2005, 02:28:08 UTC 6 years ago
And living now with a man who grew up in Leeds (though he isn't a tyke - or can someone be a paddy and a tyke in the same time?) I have had another visit of such places.
For getting an idea how such houses like Snape's in "Spinner's End" look I think of three movies. The first is "Billy Elliot". There you get (in length and in detail) the "back-to-back" with the little back yard and the outside privy.
The second - and that's one most Rickman fans will know: "Blow Dry". There's a scene where Phil searches for Sandra and comes to her parent's house - and that's one of these houses.
No. 3 is "King Ralph": Ralph visits the place where the parents of his girlfriend live - once more one of these workers' suburbs in North England.
July 21 2005, 03:15:39 UTC 6 years ago
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July 21 2005, 02:35:45 UTC 6 years ago
Certainly none of the fandom expected to see him in a place like this.
I did. Seriously, I'd always had my Snape living in brokedown places in the bad parts of town. He never struck me as posh, and I never wrote him that way.
July 21 2005, 03:14:57 UTC 6 years ago
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July 21 2005, 03:08:47 UTC 6 years ago
The town even used to have a mill until not so very long ago. It still does have the river. Rowling's got the descriptions dead on.
And that black and white picture could be the place. Well done finding that!
I don't know why I love the idea of Northern and probably Yorkshire Snape as much as I do, but for some reason, it makes me squee like nothing else.
July 21 2005, 03:13:26 UTC 6 years ago
You posted on Saturday that the possibilities for fanfic opened by the new book were endless, and I totally agree. I feel rejuvenated.
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July 21 2005, 03:17:22 UTC 6 years ago
Snape ManorSnape's ancestral home. The Leodis Database has tons of pictures of back-to-back houses, most dating from the 1950s and '60s. Here's a few that roughly fit the image I had in my head:http://www.leodis.org/view_full_size.as
http://www.leodis.org/view_full_size.as
http://www.leodis.org/view_full_size.as
And who knew Severus had an Uncle Fred?
http://www.leodis.org/view_full_size.as
July 21 2005, 03:28:18 UTC 6 years ago
Fred Snape.
*giggles*
I bet he played that one down when reminiscing in the Slytherin dorm...
Brilliant images, the first looks the most right to me, not sure why.
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July 21 2005, 03:32:26 UTC 6 years ago
Love your analysis. I'd like to claim him as a Lancashire lad (We used to live in Lancashire, before Greater Manchester swallowed it up), but I reckon Yorkshire's a better bet.
Well done!
July 21 2005, 03:33:40 UTC 6 years ago
In addition to the literal meaning of "Spinner's End" as relating to the textile industry, it makes me think of spiders and webs, which seems very appropriate. (Though not, I believe, a spoiler for the passing of Aragog. Unless, hmmm, is that a clue of a sort?)
July 21 2005, 06:37:34 UTC 6 years ago
OMG.
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July 21 2005, 03:57:50 UTC 6 years ago
...luxury.
July 21 2005, 04:30:52 UTC 6 years ago
Harry: I am an orphan! The Dursley's made me live in the cupboard under the stairs!
Snape: Luxury! We lived in pokey two up two down by t'mill!
Harry: I had to wear Dudley's cast off clothes!
Snape: Well, I 'ad it tough. Every night, my mam and dad would kill me, wi' broken bottle, and then they'd dance on my grave and sing hallelujah! Kids like you, you don't know you're bloody born!
(Snape AK's Harry without further ado. Adjusts his flat cap, collects whippet from the tree he'd tied it to, and goes back to his allotment, where he is trying, with limited success, to cross breed Mimbulus Mimbeltonia, and Gillyweed, for an interesting high, that will finally catapult him into wealth via the supply of the most mind bending substance ever designed. Then its off to the British Legion for a riveting game of shove ha'penny and a pint of Theakstone's)
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July 21 2005, 04:02:03 UTC 6 years ago
I love the idea of Snape spending his first year or so at Hogwarts carefully ironing out his accent. Although I suppose that depends on where Eileen Prince came from and whether she taught him at home.
July 21 2005, 04:04:54 UTC 6 years ago
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July 21 2005, 04:17:03 UTC 6 years ago
I love the idea of a Yorkshire Snape.
And I'm glad I can finally read your posts. I couldn't wait to get your take on everything.
Do you think that Dumbledore's death was an elaborate set up between Snape and DD? Because why would DD freeze Harry? Would have made more sense to have him invisible but able to disarm Snape or Draco.
Because Snape HAD to kill DD or he'd die because of the vow, and maybe DD knew that, and they worked out this thing so everyone would think he was gone for reasons we don't know yet.
Or maybe I'm just in serious denial.
July 21 2005, 05:16:40 UTC 6 years ago
I don't know about the true loyalties of Snape. Half the fandom does, on one fast read of the book, and they are absolutely certain. I'm not. I might be after a slow, note taking third read of the book, a long session analysing it from all ends, and by next week.
And then again, it is equally possible I will have reached no conclusion. It's NOT as cut and dried as folks suggest. But when I've done my spadework, I'll post something (probably long winded and inconclusive). I refuse to be knee jerk about all this.
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July 21 2005, 04:23:53 UTC 6 years ago
And that's the most important part: hiding from the fandom. Bless his little black heart.
I'm really digging your ideas on this. I don't know enough about far-off lands (read: anything across a large amount of water) to comment on whether or not I find it 'believable', but it sounds damn fine, and the pictures are brilliant. Fits the imagery perfectly.
July 21 2005, 05:18:56 UTC 6 years ago
"If he is evil, JKR should feel very guilty for disappointing us fans" indeed.
Out of interest, how long do you think the Snapewank will go on for? I estimate six months, because deranged fangirl has a short span of attention, or, (hopefully) they'll commit mass Hara Kiri to show JKR. Cos that'll learn her, won't it.
*facepalms repeatedly*
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July 21 2005, 05:19:32 UTC 6 years ago
But it's nice to see someone else felt it was right.
July 21 2005, 05:33:43 UTC 6 years ago
I love this sort of thing. I live for it.
I'm going to go watch the Four Yorkshiremen again and imagine Rickman as Snape.
July 21 2005, 06:00:31 UTC 6 years ago
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(Excellent location research, btw. The chimney and the cobblestones pic help bring that scene more to life. I'm wondering which towns Neil Gaiman conglomerated to create that "perfect" little haven Lakeside, Wisconsin in American Gods.)
July 21 2005, 06:44:57 UTC 6 years ago
Gah. I really need to get this computer's font issue repaired so I can edit text in Firefox without numerous mistakes and horrible angst.
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July 21 2005, 06:45:53 UTC 6 years ago
There are dozens of villages around Manchester/Huddersfield that could contain streets like Spinner's End. I can't imagine Snape with a Yorkshire accent though, in fact trying to do the 'I can teach you how to bottle fame...' speech with a Yorkshire accent was enough to bring tears to my eyes. No. Just... no :-)
Did you look into silk mills? With the spidery references there've been throughout the books.
July 21 2005, 08:02:32 UTC 6 years ago
Get with the Yorkshire!Snape. The parody potential is astounding.
;-)
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July 21 2005, 08:05:44 UTC 6 years ago
click on t'hyperlink, lass, by 'eck
and you'll never read the bottle fame brew glory speech in the same way again.
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July 21 2005, 08:07:05 UTC 6 years ago
Snape has been changing sides and stuff all his life and this is his place.
Snape finally speaks the truth, the double entendre is aimed at the readers. This is the real Snape speaking. Not saying it is so, but imagine.
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